I did provide justification for it, it’s an insult almost always levied against straight men acting as sycophants for other straight men. Neither of them are having sex with each other, it’s meant to make the submission especially shameful by drawing on the societal disgust towards gay men and straight/bi women. Socially, it has always been an insult to outright call straight men “gay” or the f-slur, because the shame and hatred for queer folk is built-in. This just extends that to the act of submission.
Secondly, I by no means made up this analysis, it’s existed for a long time (as did analysis of the r-word before it became accepted as ableist by the general population). Here’s some example articles/threads/etc:
The list goes on. It isn’t a culture shift, it’s still a pejorative that is only insulting if you think the act itself is shameful or bad, and it’s nearly always used against straight men.
Here’s a comment from one of the threads you posted:
Who gives a fuck, it’s an insult, people don’t throw out insults with a deep dark plan in mind, they do it to piss someone off at being called something.
I’ve called someone a cunt, does that mean I think vaginas are the ultimate insult? Am i deeply woman hating? No, of course not, I was mad at someone being a cunt, so I called them a cunt.
Stop reading into things, and ignore the people in this thread that think you can imply/infer deeper meanings from the surface language people use.
About sums up how i feel about this issue. Most people using the word aren’t intending to insult homosexuals. You and everyone that takes offence with this should go outside.
If i say someone is ‘riding d’ I don’t give a fuck who or who doesn’t do it. I’m alluding to a specific action using a metaphor. It’s basic literature. Stop getting offended by everything.
Also i don’t see the point of the first article you linked
Ah yes, telling a pansexual man that he needs to go outside because I recognize the way problematic language you personally are a fan of using works. Excellent strategy there. By your line of logic, we should keep using the r-slur, racial slurs, etc, if it weren’t for the fact that people already successfully pointed out the same things queer people and feminists have been pointing out about words like “dicksucker.”
Rather than telling people not to be offended by homophobic language you enjoy, you should be capable of self-critique and learn to be a bigger person. There are good reasons we no longer call people the r-word, or f-slur, and these same reasons apply to calling people “dicksuckers.” You aren’t referring to the literal actions, but likening real submissive actions to gay sex as a means to make the submissive actions more shameful. Your intent does not matter when it comes to the messages your words actually convey.
As for the article, it’s Lemmy.ml’s slur filter, you can replace the removed part with “c-sucker” spelled out.
By your line of logic, we should keep using the r-slur, racial slurs, etc
Yes i actually believe this. I’m an absolutist when it comes to this stuff, and i don’t apply this thinking in isolated instances. I have no qualms with a non-black person using the n-word—and i say this as a black person myself. Obviously, this is a fringe opinion, but it is what it is.
Rather than telling people not to be offended by homophobic language you enjoy
Why do you still follow this line of thinking? It’s not that people are offended by homophobic language, it’s that you’re looking for homophobia where there is none. That’s what i take issue with.
You aren’t referring to the literal actions, but likening real submissive actions to gay sex as a means to make the submissive actions more shameful
Refer to the quote linked above and whether you think calling someone a cunt all of a sudden makes me misogynist because it’s also a vulgar synonym for vagina
Being an absolutist in favor of slur usage is wierd, period. Slurs are phased out because it perpetuates harmful sterotypes and societal hatred towards marginalized groups. Secondly, I explained where the homophobia was. You can’t just say “nuh-uh.” Yes, calling someone a cunt is also misogynistic.
Again, you’re using emotions to make an argument. From a purely logical standpoint there should be no issue with using whatever is considered a ‘slur’ if there is no mal-intent. ‘Slurs’ are social constructs already, and I don’t believe in social constructs.
No, I’m not using emotions to make an argument, I’m talking about the systemic usage of language to passively punish those society deems “outsiders.” It doesn’t matter if you don’t believe that words have meanings and that using them conveys messages.
I can use the term ‘wigga’, and it wouldn’t nearly carry the same impact as the ‘n-word’ does. This is a social construct.
Rather than policing language, I’d rather focus on the structural factors that continue to perpetuate racial discrimination.
I’m not gonna lose my marbles over a Caucasian who uses the n-word while rapping a song that happens to contain, and I find it pretty cringe that anyone does tbh
The base and superstructure mutually reinforce each other. The base is primary, but the superstructure still has an impact on reinforcing bigotry, and part of the way that works is through language. Perpetuating bigoted language perpetuates cultural perceptions on the marginalized groups they target.
I did provide justification for it, it’s an insult almost always levied against straight men acting as sycophants for other straight men. Neither of them are having sex with each other, it’s meant to make the submission especially shameful by drawing on the societal disgust towards gay men and straight/bi women. Socially, it has always been an insult to outright call straight men “gay” or the f-slur, because the shame and hatred for queer folk is built-in. This just extends that to the act of submission.
Secondly, I by no means made up this analysis, it’s existed for a long time (as did analysis of the r-word before it became accepted as ableist by the general population). Here’s some example articles/threads/etc:
https://www.thegayuk.com/is-*removed*-a-homophobic-insult/
https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/79o250/is_calling_someone_a_*removed*_homophobic/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGayMen/comments/i0mwsv/is_saying_*removed*_as_an_insult_homophobic/
https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/sfnbvp/how_is_saying_someone_sucks_dick_not_considered/
https://medium.com/@thedrick/casual-homophobia-f238d31dc41e
The list goes on. It isn’t a culture shift, it’s still a pejorative that is only insulting if you think the act itself is shameful or bad, and it’s nearly always used against straight men.
Here’s a comment from one of the threads you posted:
About sums up how i feel about this issue. Most people using the word aren’t intending to insult homosexuals. You and everyone that takes offence with this should go outside.
If i say someone is ‘riding d’ I don’t give a fuck who or who doesn’t do it. I’m alluding to a specific action using a metaphor. It’s basic literature. Stop getting offended by everything.
Also i don’t see the point of the first article you linked
Ah yes, telling a pansexual man that he needs to go outside because I recognize the way problematic language you personally are a fan of using works. Excellent strategy there. By your line of logic, we should keep using the r-slur, racial slurs, etc, if it weren’t for the fact that people already successfully pointed out the same things queer people and feminists have been pointing out about words like “dicksucker.”
Rather than telling people not to be offended by homophobic language you enjoy, you should be capable of self-critique and learn to be a bigger person. There are good reasons we no longer call people the r-word, or f-slur, and these same reasons apply to calling people “dicksuckers.” You aren’t referring to the literal actions, but likening real submissive actions to gay sex as a means to make the submissive actions more shameful. Your intent does not matter when it comes to the messages your words actually convey.
As for the article, it’s Lemmy.ml’s slur filter, you can replace the removed part with “c-sucker” spelled out.
Yes i actually believe this. I’m an absolutist when it comes to this stuff, and i don’t apply this thinking in isolated instances. I have no qualms with a non-black person using the n-word—and i say this as a black person myself. Obviously, this is a fringe opinion, but it is what it is.
Why do you still follow this line of thinking? It’s not that people are offended by homophobic language, it’s that you’re looking for homophobia where there is none. That’s what i take issue with.
Refer to the quote linked above and whether you think calling someone a cunt all of a sudden makes me misogynist because it’s also a vulgar synonym for vagina
Being an absolutist in favor of slur usage is wierd, period. Slurs are phased out because it perpetuates harmful sterotypes and societal hatred towards marginalized groups. Secondly, I explained where the homophobia was. You can’t just say “nuh-uh.” Yes, calling someone a cunt is also misogynistic.
reddit.world moment
Seriously, lmao. I was genuinely caught off-guard with that one, that’s too on-the-nose.
Again, you’re using emotions to make an argument. From a purely logical standpoint there should be no issue with using whatever is considered a ‘slur’ if there is no mal-intent. ‘Slurs’ are social constructs already, and I don’t believe in social constructs.
😂
No, I’m not using emotions to make an argument, I’m talking about the systemic usage of language to passively punish those society deems “outsiders.” It doesn’t matter if you don’t believe that words have meanings and that using them conveys messages.
I can use the term ‘wigga’, and it wouldn’t nearly carry the same impact as the ‘n-word’ does. This is a social construct.
Rather than policing language, I’d rather focus on the structural factors that continue to perpetuate racial discrimination.
I’m not gonna lose my marbles over a Caucasian who uses the n-word while rapping a song that happens to contain, and I find it pretty cringe that anyone does tbh
The base and superstructure mutually reinforce each other. The base is primary, but the superstructure still has an impact on reinforcing bigotry, and part of the way that works is through language. Perpetuating bigoted language perpetuates cultural perceptions on the marginalized groups they target.