Maeve

I should be doing any number of things else, but this topic is bothering me. From what I’ve found on a quick search, pograms seemed stubbornly persistent, despite the revolutionary stance against, and discouragement of racist sentiment. I’ll post links, and if there are refutations, look at them in due course.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire

https://jacobin.com/2017/06/russian-revolution-antisemitism-pogroms-reactionary-workers

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogroms_during_the_Russian_Civil_War

And from a Zionist perspective,

https://www.timesofisrael.com/20-years-before-the-holocaust-pogroms-killed-100000-jews-then-were-forgotten/

I’ve merely quickly skimmed these myself, but post here to return to read later, and for your perusal, at your leisure.

I feel like if we started a thread discussing this it would be like two AI’s hallucinating against eachother.

I certainly can understand that, while also wanting to get to the bottom of this! I’ll probably start a new thread about it, but not right now.

Regarding his back story, I find it immensely interesting in that he was racist all around.

Herzl himself also was a very rich dude from a rich family and he certainly didn’t face any of the suffering or antisemtism which other Jews faced at the time.

Oh wow! You writing that struck like lightning! Maybe his racism against Jews and Palestinians boils down to classism.

Yes, would you be interested in starting a separate thread for further discussion? I’d also like to clear up my fuzziness. As a US-ian educated before education was quite as bad as it is now, I wouldn’t have known about Herzl’s attitudes that influenced his work, nor the Balfour agreement, had it not come up for an online discussion that came up with regard to Israel and Palestine in the late nineties or early aughts.

We have on record Biden claiming to encourage ceasefire, and four? of his aids on record saying it never happened.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

Theodor Herzl[a] (2 May 1860 – 3 July 1904)[3] was an Austro-Hungarian Jewish journalist and lawyer who was the father of modern political Zionism. Herzl formed the Zionist Organization and promoted Jewish immigration to Palestine in an effort to form a Jewish state. Due to his Zionist work, he is known in Hebrew as Chozeh HaMedinah (חוֹזֵה הַמְדִינָה), lit. ‘Visionary of the State’.[4][5] He is specifically mentioned in the Israeli Declaration of Independence and is officially referred to as “the spiritual father of the Jewish State”.[6]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzl’s_Mauschel_and_Zionist_antisemitism

What you’re experiencing is cognitive dissonance, and I experienced it, too, when I came to these magazines. Sometimes I still do. I think walking away, getting proper rest, nutrition, and a long walk, other quiet time to sit with yourself and let the competing thoughts quiet, then rereading the thread before making further argument or further asking questions will be helpful to you. You can jot your questions down to ask later.

Afaict, it’s because Herzl was an antisemetic Jew. He considered himself one of the good ones and Balfour made relocation more expedient. This isn’t blaming the Jews suffering under the Reich for flight rather than flight. They found themselves in an impossible situation, otherwise, afaict.

Wow, you really are arguing in bad faith. What I said was:

Because you refuse to believe what your senses are clearly showing you!

You’ve commented the evidence yourself.

Because you refuse to believe what your senses are clearly showing you! This is the result of multigenerational propagandization. Fine. Don’t believe it. Merely suspend disbelief, and it’s good faith.

I’m not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but it’s not brain-bending to grasp this concept.

Once again, socially left and economically right isn’t left! There’s a reason why Republicans blather on about LGBTQIA, while also embracing the likes of Santos, Thiel and Cook. For goodness’ sake, can you not see the mismatch between words and actions of politicians of any affiliation?

I feel it would be helpful to me to have a conversation regarding this, at some point, at least clear up some of my own confusion, but probably not itt.

Democrats sued to keep her off the ballots in system states it would have mattered. They knew the stakes and guessed voters would crawl back after the current administration.