No, I am saying the crash of Evergrande was in no way a planned or negotiated event. Everyone knew there was trouble but no one “popped” it intentionally.

It’s a trend observable in all capitalist nations.

Ok 100% of nations

If you develop enough, the rate of profit falls, and so you need to expand outward to profit. This is the basis of imperialism, the carving out of the global south for profit. Across the west, this is a fact, even if it manifests in different ways.

Ok so there are exceptions that make it not observable in all nations only those that have met specific situations (presuming any of the claims are valid which has never been demonstrated to be the case).

It’s A or B. It cannot be observable in all capitalist systems if it has not happened in most and likely cannot happen in them ever. That means the presumption is not inherently valid like you are treating it.

You are treating your opinions as fact. Others here are doing the same. No one has been able to provide anything to support this. They only engage in ad hominem or complete misunderstandings of the claim.

They didn’t intentionally pop this bubble. It popped and they have done everything in their power to limit the damage. China might not be forthright about their policies but they do seem to be interested in preventing social collapse.

This starts with you not getting that “all” means 100% not 100% with exceptions. Those backong your claims aee those that also do not see the numbers argument I was making and most seem to uncritically accept the propaganda you have accepted, so why would I listen to a larger number of people who aren’t getting it?

If one person or 100 people claim the earth is the center of the solar system are you any more likely to accept that?

Did you mean default for lemmy or default for the system utilized by most nations? I took you as meaning the latter

Except factually speaking, China has increase wealth inequality since their initial revolution and again in the cultural revolution so it really appears like they are abandoning socialism and giving it lip service like the USA is abandoning liberalism as a whole.

You are ignoring realities to make it fit the propaganda you have accepted from the Chinese media/propaganda sphere. Hey does the state, billionaires, or the working classes own the press in China?

The fact is kiddo. You have accepted propaganda and I am forcing you to confront the hypocrisy and inaccuracy within the notions you claim inappropriately as fact. Nothing I have said is incorrect unless te only permitted perspective is one that wholly accepts leftist theories as truth.

Neoliberalism is absolutely not the default when we look at the whole world. If we look at the developed world it is the default. That is not the case for everyone.

Your binary only makes sense for some of the world. That’s why I keep pointing to how eurocentric it us.

Well 4 years ago it was shrinking. How about post-COVID?

“ Chinese workers do control the means of production through public ownership being the principle aspect of the economy, the large firms and key industries are firmly in the public sector. “

No, they do not. Try looking at what is listed on the exchanges sometime. It might surprise you. It’s false to claim workers control the means of production when an investor class and investment banks exist.

Im not presuming to know socialist “theory” better than those that choose to accept it but there are actual realities that most leftists actively avoid because it makes their claims invalid. In this case an investor class having been created since the revolution is a sign of failure.

Finally you made a claim of all which ypu then made exceptions to that made the claim of “all” factually incorrect. You want to debate theory when I keep pointing out that “all of them but not really all of them” loterally means not all of them. As your claim that I reject outright relies on “all” your claim is not correct. Everyone who is “explaining” things is over looking that you said “not all” means “all”

Sorry that your logic is not as solid or valid as you thought in this case.

Again please remember your beliefs are not facts and much of what marxists claim has not been proven.

Im not arguing whether it us acceptable for the state to restrain private industry, but if you are claiming that Iran is liberal they cannot do this to the extent they currently are doing. My point is Iran is not a liberal nation

Go look at that first sentence you keep quoting. It says ALL without any exceptions.

The truth is the “theory” they profess is unproven and you accept it all as fact and I do not based on the lack of evidence to support the claim.

Still have nothing to point to that you did.

Good to know how dedicated you are to your cause. Maybe dial back on attacking people if you aren’t contributing.

Of they aren’t making the change to permit liberalism then it does matter and currently my understanding is the state is dragging theor feet on privatization.

Chinese workers do not control the means of production and there is a growing wealth inequality. The PRC is simply lying about their pursuits of socialism.

You probably shouldn’t be talking about any nation given you have trouble grasping hiw “All but not really all” means not all.

All means 100%. The fact that an exception is made where it does not happens means it is not “all”.

Of course all of this presumes the rest is true and that has never been adequately demonstrated to be the case. Marxist assertions are called “theory” by leftists but they do not have that level of credibility or validity IRL. It is always worth remembering “theory” is really from from the case

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So you did nothing this weekend and your best choice is to pretend I did nothing? How does that work?

Only if you accept Marxist/leftist theory as facts and you shouldn’t dothat since so much is unproven or proven to not be true. This is true for any political theory

And you are presuming the discussions being had are about capitalism when they are still debating the role of the government in private ownership.

It’s a eurocentric position. It’s odd how many “leftists” fall into this.

Note you can only complain about what I was doing to improve things. Is this because you did nothing and are just looking to attack those that are trying to make things better for others or is it because you dont think I should protest ICE or feed hungry people?

No but being slow because you refuse to adopt the liberalizing policies is an indication that you aren’t serious about being liberal. It’s like suggesting China is serious about socialism when they have a stock market and income inequality is widening.