Title text:
It’s important for devices to have internet connectivity so the manufacturer can patch remote exploits.
Transcript:
Transcript will show once it’s been added to explainxkcd.com
Source: https://xkcd.com/3109/
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I got new appliances a couple weeks ago and they’re all “smart”. Turns out a smart microwave just sends you a phone notification when it’s done. By default.
As someone with multiple people living in the house, I can confidently say this is the dumbest “smart” feature ever. Promptly disabled.
Most people tend to stay in the same room (or a neighbouring room) when they’re microwaving something. They could probably save on the cost of having a full-blown computer with wifi inside the microwave by just having the noisy thing from an alarm clock. But, ah, the fuck do I know?
There really is an xkcd for everything.
I’ve looked into many WiFi dehumidifier’s and the one thing I wanted from it was to notify my phone if it’s full. None of them do that. All they do is let you change speed and stuff. Nothing that is important to me. I just want to know if I need to go to the basement and empty it or not.
https://aeotec.com/products/aeotec-water-sensor-7-pro/
This little thing is a beast :)
Do they at least tell you how wet your wifi is?
Right? Like half of what I want from these things is when is the battery low? When is the outbox full? When is the feeder empty? And metrics to verify the device is generally operating safely.
Controlling the device? We’ve known how to do that for 50+ years. Help me maintain the device.
I feel you, trying to find a smart gadget that is actually smart in 2025 and not just a data collector is nearly impossible. Learning to DIY a lot of these projects. Throw one of these or similar in there with a little control board set to email you if 0 changes to 1 or w/e
I need to look into this and see if I can have it send me a text or something when it’s full. Another diy project to add to the list.
This is the around the long way method, but it’ll start you on a crippling hobby to instrument your entire life.
Raspberry Pi home assistant zigbee USB zigbee water sensor.
you could stop here at notifications.
or
Descend into madness, put a small ac submersible pump into your dehumidifier tray with a smart outlet. When the sensor trips full, have it run the submersible pump for x minutes.
Hey if your list of projects isn’t insurmountable what are you even doing with with your life?
Most carriers have an email to sms gateway address Usually your number@carrier.com or similar.
Meanwhile here I am installing ESP32C3’s into everything in my house to automate everything.
I can turn on my floor heat, hallway light, or even open a vent from an app on my phone. And bonus, no shady manufacturers to spy on me. Just China.
It would be a lot more difficult to hide a backdoor on a bare ESP device, than a proprietary Tuya one, just putting that out there. Regardless, I still block internet access from my ESPHome devices, because I don’t want to feel like I need to constantly be on top of updates, that can cause things to break at times. I do them every couple months when I have the time to sit down and make sure everything’s still working, or roll it back where it’s not.
I just installed motorized dampers in my crawl space using Shelly smart relays! Now I have an automatic schedule so I’m not cooling rooms that aren’t in use (like the bedrooms during the day and the lower level of the house at night). Already seen significant power savings!
that vent thing is surprisingly clever, thumbs up 👍
Hey thanks, I’ve got tons of cool projects and gifs like these, and I love to share them and read the comments, but I don’t know where to post them on Lemmy. I used to post them to Reddit but they started shadowbanning my github for some reason. Didn’t even find out until the ESP32 mod messaged me and was like “we can’t even manually approve your posts”.
welll… devils advocate… i could see the wifi being used so the device can be incorporated into the home automation system [climate control]. its not about dehumidifying, its solely about engaging the dehumidifying as needed.
Yeah, or the manufacturer bricks the device bcz they want to sell you a new one.
That’s why projects like this are great: https://github.com/Hypfer/esp8266-midea-dehumidifier
My Midea Cube dehumidifier can never be bricked and will never send data outside of my home. It talks to Home Assistant via MQTT and nothing else.
A dehumidifier that doesn’t have any wifi can’t be bricked either.
Yeah but I want to control it with the average humidity from sensors across my house
1st world problems
I mean, yeah. I wouldn’t have found that project and gone to the effort of using it if a simple dehu was all I needed. I wanted something I could control with my local home assistant install, and you can’t just hard power cycle a dehumidifier, it kills them.
Ok
What is “hard power cycle” a dehumidifier? Have you never used a normal dehumidifier before or something?
Literally nobody is doing this shit.
“Nobody” like in “SONOS literally bricking its old devices and telling you to buy a new one”? https://www.whathifi.com/news/sonos-explains-why-recycle-mode-bricks-old-speakers
They didn’t brick anything. They gave a button for you to get a discount if you did it yourself
But they can close their server and render the device inoperable, just like what happened to a water sensor I had.
That’s why it’s important to make sure the device can also run purely locally (e.g. via HomeAssistant).
(Not meant as a rebuke, just good advice for the future)
Exactly this. The device either needs to be open enough that it can easily integrate to HA without internet access.
Or dumb enough that I can mod it with an ESP.Anything that has to go through the manufacturer’s servers goes in the bin, the risks of data theft/rent seeking are too damned high.
They didn’t brick it, but the Nest thermostats that customers bought before Google acquired the company will be offline only now. No opening of the firmware, so they’ll become useless at some point, and already have lost major functionality.
Literally false and you’re retarded.
Hey bud, no need to attack someone’s intelligence. You can pick apart their argument with sources like a big kid but nobody logged in to see you be a butthead online today.
Bullshit asymmetry principle, been there done that. Name-calling serves a small but real purpose in the right contexts.
Dehumidifiers already do that. They’re equipped with hygrometers that kick the machine on or off depending on the relative humidity. It’s old tech and it’s pretty reliable, wifi isn’t really necessary for it.
The built-in hygrometer’s not necessarily going to be as good as a well-designed home automation system, especially if the fan’s not running all the time, so it has to wait for damp air to diffuse into the machine. It also lets you do other things, like not bother turning the dehumidifier on if there are open windows if you’ve got some way to detect that, or report the humidity to something that will graph it. It’s not stuff that most consumers will care about, but a microcontroller with WiFi like the ESP8266 or ESP32-C3 costs less than an accurate hygrometer chip, so it doesn’t make much, if any, difference to the final price, particularly if the product was going to use a microcontroller anyway.
but a microcontroller with WiFi like the ESP8266 or ESP32-C3 costs less than an accurate hygrometer chip
Ok, two things.
First, the cost of the Wi-Fi chip is clearly not the issue here. The real expense/concern is the effort and software mechanisms needed to secure that network connection. Connecting to the Internet is easy, securing that connected device is hard.
Secondly, at some point you still need the hygrometer, there’s no way around that. Either your dehumidifier is tracking humidity, or your home automation system needs to track humidity. And you can’t like… get that data from the web somehow, you need a local sensor, and it will generally only make sense to have it in the same room as the dehumidifier (meaning not necessarily where other smart home components are set up).
So, first off, smart devices shouldn’t need to connect to the internet, only the local network. I have everything connected to Home Assistant, and then for access outside the house I have HA connected to the internet, meaning I only have one point I need to secure.
On your second point, I think the poster above was talking about having both an in-built as well as wifi-accessible external sensor. It makes it possible to have a more powerful dehumidifier in one space, running to a lower humidity than needed based off what’s going on in other rooms. Then have that air circulated by other fans, etc.
It’s ironic that you can implement all this cool automation for a device but in the end still have to manually lug water to it.
Well it’s a **de-**humidifier. You need to lug water from it. For the dehumidifier in my basement, we have it hooked up to a hose that takes the water right down the drain.
But I do take your point, it is pretty funny.
Like how every source of power is still steam since before the industrial revolution.
Just most sources of power. Photovoltaic, wind and hydro aren’t steam based.
And your moms power is hip based.
I’m not going to knock her putting them to good use! It’s done well by her so far. 👍
a microcontroller with WiFi like the ESP8266 or ESP32-C3 costs less than an accurate hygrometer chip
No it doesn’t. Those micros go for $1-2 bulk, but capacitive hygrometers are 10x cheaper.
I can get a board from AliExpress with an ESP32-C3 on it with free shipping for £1.10, so I’m not inclined to believe the £0.765 unit cost for a 5000-part reel from Mouser is really the cheapest way to get them in bulk as the other parts on the same board and the shipping have to cost something.
The cheapest hygrometer that Mouser sell is £0.748 per unit for a 10,000-part reel, and its datasheet says not to leave it for more than 60 hours in greater than 80% relative humidity (which is a pretty likely scenario for a dehumidifier) as it’ll drift, and if it happens often, it’ll age faster. You need to spend more to get rid of that restriction. I’ll concede that the accuracy penalty if you cheap out isn’t as bad as I thought - I’d not actually looked at a datasheet to see how badly modern hygrometers would drift, I just knew that they did - so plenty of manufacturers wouldn’t care, but the parts are still comparable prices, not a factor of ten like you’re claiming.
To steel-man the argument some more, if you have variable-rate electricity, it could turn on when electricity is cheap.
Because times when electricity is cheap coincide with the need for lowering humidity?
Some places do electricity costs in 30 minute periods. If you know cost will spike when everyone gets home, and the sun sets, then running early makes sense. Other times, holding off for an hour might be more useful.
This can be done with something like Zigbee. Or even simpler: you hook a non-connected device up to a “smart” power socket. No need for the device itself to talk to the outside world.
The solution to too many unnecessarily-connected devices is more connected devices?
The solution is not more but different connected devices so I can decide for myself what needs to be connected and by which protocol. Get the dumbest device on the market, no wifi, no internal clock, maybe not even a humidity sensor and then, if and only if I need to remote control it, for example to put it on a schedule, I can use the cheapest “smart” device on the market to connect it to an in-house machine that can turn it on and off.
You still have to have some device connected to the internet. This just transfers the problem from the humidifier to the outlet.
Zigbee is local and if you really wanted to you can use Home Assistant 100% offline it will be just neutered and basic.
im not sure why all these people jumped from ‘wifi’ to ‘internet’ as if they were the same thing. no one should be exposing their automation devices directly to the interwebs
In this case the OP was explicitly about internet connectivity
Sadly, many wifi-enabled devices only work with some proprietary cloud-service and even if not, they’re only one configuration error (or intentional backdoor) away from talking to the outside. Better have something that isn’t physically able to talk to the internet no matter how badly I fuck up its configuration and my firewall.
Clearly I just trust my abilities to disable a devices internet access in my router more than you. I also know that my risk factor is really low, because I’m not a journalist or a politician.
As well, I only buy smart devices that I can lock down, brands like LIFX & Shelly that have cloud services, but don’t require you to connect to them for the device to function over LAN.
I run home automation with lights, switches, outlets, heaters and some more and not a single device has internet access. They all use Zigbee (a simple radio protocol) to talk to homeassistant which is open source and hosted on a machine that lives under my desk.
Separating tasks between the dehumidifier and outlet has the advantage that each individual device can be a lot simpler, leaving less attack surface. My power outlet can’t read the humidity sensor, it doesn’t need to talk to an external server, it doesn’t even need to know that the thing connected to it is a dehumidifier. It’s just a chip that receives a radio signal and toggles a relay on or off. That’s it.
Separating the two concerns also lets me replace the devices separately if one breaks or my requirements change. If I suddenly need wifi or bluetooth instead of Zigbee or if it’s for some reason no longer supported by homeassistant, I can just replace a 9€ outlet instead of the whole dehumidifier that could get bricked by the proprietary app losing support.
Home automation is still a dark art as far as the common person is concerned. Full of fear mongering from the media.
Much like 3D printing was very mystical and full of “oh no 3d printed guns!” We have gone full appliance with 3d printing and it’s no longer gatekeeped by geeks in their basements.
I’m glad I still have at least one hobby that hasn’t gone mainstream and I can still geek out on ESPHome.
You could do all that without internet connectivity, just sayin.
who said anything about internet connectivity? wifi != internet
🙄
That’s the feature they sell. But, its real purpose is to monetize your data and/or lock you into some sort of ridiculous subscription service and/or run ads.
That’s pretty much ubiquitous for “smart” devices.
That’s right, this would mean that the device has an api to activate or deactivate it through WiFi by sending it commands and I can make it unable to connect to the outside internet right?
Or I can only activate it with the proprietary app that doesn’t even have a working schedule?
Connecting to WiFi is good when I have full control but not when the manufacturer does
Yeah, devices that can run fully local are the best. They can be integrated into Home Assistant (or similar), with full control over them. No reliance on a remote server or proprietary app.
Johnson. You’re hired!
Better solution: smart plug
